No NieNie, they aren't jealous of you. The reason you get mean comments is because you use your accident to gain gifts and attention and people are sick of it. You parade your children in dangerous situations, you know no seat belts and no life jackets. You post nude pictures of your children on the web and think that makes you "Mother of The Year"...sorry but it doesn't!
You aren't doing "Beggin For Christmas Gifts" aka Homemade Christmas because there is no one who will participate again because they got burned by you last year. At least be honest about it...
This is what NieNie said on her blog:
I am not doing Homemade Christmas this year. You wouldn't believe how much hate mail I received last year because I did that.--Thanks anyway;) On that note, I enjoyed this article
145 comments:
She sounds a lot like Mckmama.
NieNie needs to get OVER HERSELF! She uses people and thinks she is superior to others! She left a impression on A LOT of people after last years debacle, you reap what you sow sweetie!
I'm so glad I'm not the only blogger who is sick of Nienie and her greed. I looked around her blog and not one single disclosure about all the free junk she is racking in. overnienie
Dumb.
I really just dont understand why it is that people in general, not just mommy bloggers and such, cant just understand that if you burn the bridge so many times it isnt going to come back. If you continually just use people they eventually get tired of it and withdraw.
For those who know me this may be a funny story but it is a true story. About 15 years ago I was actually active in a church. One of the best messages I ever heard in any church came from our pastor one day when he was talking about relationships. Everyone has a glass. We use our glasses for giving and receiving things tangible and not from other people in our lives. If we have someone in our lives that just always has their glass held out for receiving but never gives eventually we have to make the choice to allow them to take all we have to give or to keep some for ourselves. It made sense to me.
Shannon
Sure makes sense to me. Great story from your pastor.
I was a big follower of Nie and I gave when donations were collected and things changed with her. I do feel like I made a bad call by giving and I did some research and now understand they collected over 250,000 dollars which explains why they can afford a boat and a very expensive car with no jobs.
Lesson learned for me.
A Former Nie Follower
Is there no comments at MWOP? Something is up I think, JM being quiet & all of a sudden MWOP shuts down comments? I have a bad feeling, and I don't mean MWOP got shut down. I think perhaps something really did happen to JM or one of her family members and ANJA turned off comments out of respect. Who knows......
^^^^^^ Never mind^^^^^^ Duh!
The only thing happening on mwop is a whole lot of nothing. Some flag troll comes out to spice things up when it gets particularly slow and boring. Things that make you wonder...
enuffzenuff
Shannon, that's an excellent analogy your pastor made...something I could well stand to be reminded of often, so thank you. And you? Church? Damn.
Granted, I've not read a lot of NieNie's blatherings, but the feeling I've gotten is that a big difference between her and JM is that JM is a planner, she's conniving, whereas NieNie strikes me as a spoiled, petulant and not-so-bright woman who, as Tina said up there, just doesn't get it and feels entitled to people fawning over her. I'm not sure which is better...or worse.
I still can't locate any interest in Nienie, but I agree with everybody who said "she doesn't get it".
OT: Happy (belated?) Birthday, Lisa.
Kate, you scared the shit out of me, knowing that, and then I remembered we talked about astrological signs once. Lolol...damn. And thanks.
I have trouble caring about NieNie, as well. She's not even a good train wreck, really.
I noticed MWOPs comments are way down, too...they're just doing what? 1 or 2 posts a week now? I saw people were nitpicking over the colors in JM's kids rooms and I thought they looked nice and cozy, so go figure.
Can't stand Nie Nie. I haven't read over there in a long time, and don't plan on it. She's an entitled, boring, idiot in my book.
Lisa, I also like the colors in the kids rooms. the green room has a very odd paint job that I don't care for, but the colors are nice. I love M's room though, the maroon is adorable.
I would be more concerned that the kids rooms have no doors. My friend lost her sister in law in a fire that way, the kids who slept with their doors closed survived, but the fire rushed right into her room. I always had my kids sleep with their doors closed and taught them to feel it for heat, etc... (but I could be paranoid too)
Glad I am not the only one who thought that paint was nice. I am not big on the green, but that maroon room is adorable. Anything to pick at her. She could paint the rooms white and they would complain that it is to boring or something like she doesn't care enough to give them color. Doesn't matter which moderates now, that blog is so far down the drain it will never be what it once was.
enuffzenuff
I agree about the kids rooms..they appear very cheerful and very neat and clean.
I find it so funny when you read the comments nit picking her. Many will begin with the I did XYZ but I can't believe mckmama does XYZ. I have never understood how someone can even justify nit picking Mckmama when they admit they themselves have done the same thing. Hypocrite much???
I did notice Mckmama's followers on facebook are climbing every single day so I would say there are still MANY who support her. I believe that she will end up with more supporters now that her life is a a level that many can relate to.
I don't normally talk politics on the web but I was curious if any of you have read anything about Mitt Romney who NieNie keeps pimping out for president? I did some research and what I find funny is her is a bishop in the Morman Church and if you read anything about their rules for being one, a bishop that is, something stuck out for me. It states as a bishop they must put the church first before anything else in their life. PERIOD...so my question is if you are president, you take an oath that you put our country first. So how does someone like this even run for president? If he was to win, which I doubt he will, but if he did..does he suddenly NOT put his church first or does he put his church first and our country second??? Also after some research did you know as a bishop he wears special morman underwear with some printed logo that was set worth by their leader the Smith guy? So I had to chuckle when reading all this since I have never cared to read anything about this religion and the special underwear just really made me giggle. It is some super secret underwear that someone leaked about after they left the church.
Batman I never really thought about the no doors in the event of a fire. It makes total sense though.
Was gonna go look at the rooms but for some reason I cant access her blog...getting a weird screen with the address at mycharmingkids.net even trying to go from her twitter.
I don't get the NieNie hate. None of us have lived a day in her shoes, and I'm sure that all the money in the world doesn't make being burned over 80% of your body a great experience. She will never be the same, her life will never be the same. So she has more money than most of her readers (I say this because it seems to be a bone of contention for a lot of people, although I do not know any specifics as to how much or little they have). How is that any of your business? If you want more money, go out and get a job and make yourself more money. Her having money does not mean you have to have less. I will never understand people who wish to take away the happiness of other people. Focus on your own lives, because I am certain that none of us are perfect.
The person complaining about donating money to them and finding out that they collected $250,000--well, don't you think their medical bills ate that up? Be serious!
And all this talk of concern for her children is nonsense. Her children always appear well loved and taken care of and HAPPY. If I thought any of you were even the slightest bit serious in your concern for her children, that would be one thing, but you're all just hating for the sake of hating. It's really deplorable behavior.
To sum it up: Because Nie is blessed with material things does not take away from what you have in your own lives. Stop comparing yourself to others and feeling somehow less. There are some deep seated insecurities reflected in a lot of these comments. Did Nie make a mistake in collecting a lot of gifts last year--perhaps, but who among us does not make mistakes. Hers are on a larger scale because she is read more widely. That's just the way it is. Get over it.
I think if you try to support others instead of tear them down, you'll find your lives so much happier. Negative energy begets negative energy. Try love.
Kasey
Kasey:
Unlike NieNie's blog you can come here and state your opinion. Just like everyone here can state their opinion.
I do believe maybe we aren't reading the same blog if you think NieNie is NOT harming her children? Riding in cars with no seatbelts, naked pictures on the web, no life jackets on a sailboat?? Many other things she does that put her children at risk.
Someone having something tragic in their life happen doesn't give them a FREE PASS to cheat people, to beg on the internet for freebies, to think you are above the laws.
In fact someone with her following has a moral obligation to follow the laws and as a DEVOTE Mormon like she uses her blog to tell everyone..she is not even following her own teachings of the Mormon faith. Hypocrite, yes she is!
Speaking of medical bills and all the money..maybe you should do some research. They had insurance that payed most of their medical in full. Not to mention I'm sure the money collected was not intended for Sailboats, motocycles and expensive cars..all which have been purchased AFTER the collection of money!
Just sayin maybe you have your opinion, but many of us have done the research and see between the lines of what NieNie is all about. M-O-N-E-Y
Did you see the video JM posted? I really could care less how she explains where babies come from with her kids, BUT I can NOT believe she would post it on the NET! Unacceptable, a moment that she should have kept private. I would DIE if my MOM had that convo with me as a child and posted it on the net and I saw years later a child "me" saying penis and vagina that many times! Poor Kieran....
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who liked the McKRooms, although I agree abotu that green room. I don't get the random splotches of one shade of bright green on another shade of bright green, and green-lover than I am (my own bedroom is a kiwi green), I don't like either shade of green she used but it's still cozy and nice for kids. I thought Maisie's maroon (aka "dried blood" on MWOP) room was quite pretty, a bit Victorian feeling and my own son had a midnight blue room at Keiran's age. Imo, it's the perfect color for pretending you're zooming through outer space or exploring the depths of the ocean. :-) I had to laugh, too, at someone over there acting all expert-y and going on about having to sand those walls to repaint. Uh, no. A coat of good primer and then a coat of paint with a built-in primer and it's gone... no big deal. I painted Snowflake's black room white doing this and it's perfectly even, although I did do two coats of white since it didn't have a built-in primer. People are dumb. :-P
Kasey, no one here hates NieNie. I have no clue how you got such an idea but it's not true. Tina (Lauren) clarified the rest quite well for you, and it's all been pretty common knowledge, even to those of us who really didn't read her, for a long time.
Now, I'm off to Google about the special Mormon underwear. I'm having a hard time believing that one. :-D You do bring up a good point about Mitt, though. Of course, I don't like him so maybe that colors my view a bit.
Gah. Where is that video? I won't pass judgement until I've seen it.
Oh, Batman, I was raised that doors needed to stay open so parents could hear if someone broke in and tried to steal the kid or so they could hear if the kid got sick or something. Sleeping with doors closed still freaks me out some, to be honest, and we still don't do it.
Lisa,
They have a link to the video at MWOPblog. Check it out, I'm curious to what others have to say about it!
I agree the video is tacky, but let's be fair. JM didn't post it on her blog to make money. For all we know she never had any plans of sharing this video with the internet. How can she be using it to get clicks when it is not posted on her blog?
Now if she were to post it on her blog I would say yes that is wrong, but until I see that I think it is just once again JM without a filter and her making a video with her children that you and I would probably never make. This is posted on facebook, her blog or twitter. If MWOP had not shared the link to JM's acct no one would even know it existed. Once again, I say MWOP is the one pimping JM's children out for clicks..not JM. If they are so worried about the well being of the children they should remove the link to the video so no one else looks at it. They will never do this because their purpose is to make JM look bad even at the expense of the children.
All right now. Just watched the video and I think that's a bit much information for those poor kids.
Lisa said:
(I reposted your comment with the link to the video removed)
I found the video. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Well, I guess I'm not *as bothered by it as some seem to be, but I thought it was tasteless as hell to make a video of it. That's a private, family moment, or should be. Also, kids ask questions about this stuff when their minds are ready to understand and accept it, so why volunteer so much detail with kids who not only didn't ask, but who seemed bored and/or not able to really understand yet. Oh, right...clicks. *eyeroll* It didn't help that I kept thinking about a torture inquisition, the way those kids were lined up against the wooden wall of that stall with that one bright light dangling over their heads. This is probably her most blatant attempt to use her kids for money I've seen yet from her and it's shameful. I like how Maisie really just wants to know where her gloves are so she can poke her hands into the hay like a goat hoof...too cute and all she ought to be wanting to know at her age! And I still maintain Kieran is a gorgeous child. Oh, you know what bothered me most of all? Maisie's somewhat clinical explanation of breastfeeding. Maybe it's just the people I associate with *grins*, but most kids I know would have said "The baby gets milk from Mommy's boobies when he's hungry" and left it at that. Anyway, I'll be curious to see what others think, too.
November 30, 2011 1:53 PM
We shouldn't be able to judge that conversation she had with the kids because none of us should ever have seen that conversation! That is a private talk between parents and children, not something to record and share with the entire world!
Those poor kids aren't allowed to have one shred of privacy. What is posted online is there forever. Who knows how many people have saved that video to their hard drive already so that even if she deletes it, it still exists. There will forever be a record of those little babies talking about penises and vaginas in a barn with their crazy mother.
Ugh..those poor kids. :(
Can I ask something...is it true she told Maisie to stop playing with her vagina at the dinner table? If so, I have a whole different issue with that, not that the obvious issue isn't bad enough. The fact is, *if Maisie was doing so, it most probably was not her "vagina" she was touching and if JM is so big on proper names, then by God, she needs to use proper names and not use "vagina" as the go-to term for all lower female parts. Sorry, but that's a pet peeve of mine...either use proper names or don't. Some movie star doesn't wear panties, gets out of a car and we're told she showed her vagina. Well, most probably, no...we saw her clitoris, vulva or labia and not her vagina. Not that any of that would be better sounding at a dinner table but at least it would be living what she preaches.
That's fine, Tina...I wondered if I should have done that after it was too late. And when you know a link to your Vimeo videos are on MWOP, then you have to know it's going to be found. As for the intent being for clicks...I could be wrong, sure. But why else would it be posted there, as opposed to not at all or on some private Vimeo account just for personal family stuff that people can't find?
Anon 2:10. You are absolutely right in saying that we should not judge. However, she did put it all out there for all to see. There is no privacy on the internet unless you do everything in your power to make it so.
The fact that JM posted that video on her public Vimeo site nullifies any argument about whether or not she intended to share the video with the internet; she already has. What her future intent is in posting the video remains to be seen, true, but she is the one to blame for publicly posting the video, not MWOP. She could have posted it to a private site for only close friends and family, but she did not. Instead she used the Vimeo site that she has repeatedly linked to from her blog in the not-so-distant past.
I think it's misdirected to blame MWOP in this isntance, for merely pointing out something that JM posted publicly on the internet for all to see. In addition, they aren't linking to the video itself but to JM's public Vimeo page.
-L
Good point L.
L,
Totally agree. I'm never one to defend MWOP, but on this, it's JM's responsibility! She knew what she was doing when she posted that video and she obviously is looking for controversy. At what cost though? Her kids? Marriage? My husband would KILL ME if I posted a video like that for the world to see. Not that I would, I have common sense :) I normally can't stand MWOP and sometimes (not often) feel bad for JM, but this latest stunt of hers is just heart breaking. I really hope someone in her family ( YES YOU ISRAEL) would hold her accountable for posting that kind of video for the public to see. MWOP in no way is responsible for her actions. She choose to put it out there (on purpose) so it's all on her.
Darcy
Okay, I'm going to say something here and I suspect it's not going to be popular, or maybe it will be, but jeeeez, y'all know I think Keiran is a beautiful kid. Frankly, her best looking kid, even, although the others sure aren't ugly by any means. However, he's not the most masculine of boys ever, at least what she shows of him, and I've got some real concerns about a somewhat effeminate-looking young boy (bear in mind, I've got one of those, just older now, so I know she can see it in him, too) saying the word "penis" so many time over on a public video. Y'all want to think about a pedophile's wet dream? No, me neither, but I'll bet a girlish looking young boy saying "penis" over and over could well play a part in it. That really bothers me a lot. :-/
OMG :(
I haven't seen the video so I won't comment on it. Don't read Nie Nie, so I won't comment on that either. But..... I can comment a little on the Mormons. I am not one but know a lot of them.
The underwear is called Garments. If you are married in the Mormon Temple, go on a mission etc. you get to wear them. I don't know the significance. Romney may be called a bishop but is probably not currently one. My uncle was one for a period of time. He was in charge of the church, ran the services etc. I think they are only one for a few years but may still retain the title. My uncle was active in the Church and then was selected to be a Bishop. It is nothing like a minister or priest where you are assigned a church and may move to serve in another area.
My feelings on JM have been mixed as of late, sometimes I feel sorry, othertimes I am appalled. The video is creepy, I am one to teach kids the proper name for all body parts, but I also teach them we don't say them out in public or to be funny. (If a child is ever touched, molested etc and they don't use the "correct terminology" their statements can be thrown out, not that I anticipate this ever happening to my kids, but I still want to be prepared). I think it just bothers me that it's such a private moment, and really the kids didn't seem interested? IDK
One thing about vimeo, she uses it for all her video's, so if anyone is going there just looking for an older video, say her family closet, or K's lego video, they'll come across that one. If she intended to keep it private, she should have not placed it into that particular vimeo account.
ps. I haven't been around much lately, life has been kicking my ass. Seven ways from Sunday.
Tempi
Ann, I just found this site...lol, love the to-the-point name. http://www(dot)mormon-underwear(dot)com/ What an odd and unusual thing for my mind to wrap around. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything, just that it seems very, very strange to me.
Shelby, I know, right? Imagine some nasty person taking just sound-bites out of that video and really, putting it out there publicly is one of the poorest bits of parenting I've seen in awhile, at least online.
Seriously Lisa, not that I ever would post a video of my kids and myself having that type of conversation on the internet, I totaly forgot about the sickos. And for that I am ashamed. Really, I am. You tend to forget even when you are trying to be safe about ALL of the weirdos that lurk.
Shelby, it's easy to forget unless you make yourself sit and think about it, unless, of course, you've been a victim of it. I have not been personally, I do not mean that, but I tend to be a pessimist and look for worst possible scenarios so I can wall up against them. Anything even vaguely sexual and with kids involved needs to be off limits, imo. To me, that's just safe parenting.
Lisa, you are absolutely right.
I am horrified that the video is made public. I don't honestly know who I blame more, JM for putting it on a public site or MWOP for broadcasting it. I did not see JM mention it anywhere, well her blog or facebook I don't do Twitter. If that is the case, this is MWOP I find to be completely in the wrong. If she pointed it out on one of those venues, then I am torn who to blame. That "lesson" should have been a private thing. When I think about the pedos and pervs in the world getting a hold of that I am literally sick to my stomach. And that is when I go back to who do I blame for endangering those children.
EnuffzEnuff
JM did not mention or provide a link to this clip anywhere on her blog, twitter or facebook. Someone on MWOP found it and broadcasted it. They certainly spend alot of time looking through everything they can, just to see what they can find.
Anne
It wasn't hard to find, Anne. MWOP has a link to all her Vimeo videos that she makes public right there on the site. She knows MWOP has that link to every video she posts no Vimeo, so she's aware that with one click, many people who don't like her will find whatever she puts there. Yet, she posts it anyway. This one's on her, not MWOP.
I do understand some believe because she had the video listed on vimeco that makes it fair game.
I just happen to think Mckmama didn't post this out on her blog, facebook or twitter so she is not inviting people to view it. Just because someone FOUND it doesn't mean they were welcomed to view it the way her blog, twitter or facebook is.
The bottom line for me is that if MWOP cares about the children they should take it down because they are giving the link to finding it and actually putting the children at risk..just like their mother did by making such a video.
You cannot pretend to care about the children and use that as a reason to bash their mother time and time again..and then turn around and put the children in danger. Two wrongs do not make a right!
Lisa,
If MWOP really cared so much about the kids as they PRETEND to, they would NOT have brought that video to everyone's attention!!!!!
Anne
I think Jennifer didn't make that video.It was one of those mwopers that went in the barn with a secret camera and dress up like JM. Jennifer would never, ever do something like that to her own kids.Who videotape her own son taking about the penis and vigina in the same sentence and posted on a public site without been password protected?.
I go back and forth with the role MWOP is playing in this. No they should NOT advertise the link, but JM knows they find everything......why would she put it there in the 1st place? I do believe she wanted it to be found and planned for the blame to be put on MWOP. Either way, she should NEVER have put that video ANYWHERE except for a safe place in her own Gosh darn house.
Darcy
she lost her website.
Vimeo falls under the "social media" umbrella. Posting videos there is no different than posting photos on Facebook. It is not private.
Mckmama often posts videos there and then points her blog to it a few days later. I don't think it's much if a stretch to think that she had plans to do that wirh this particular video.
I am astounded that some people refuse to hold this "mother" responsible for her own decisions. No wonder she has a hard time holding herself accountable.
Sheldon Cooper
Ooh, Sheldon!
Parents are supposed to protect their children, not pimp them out. She's responsible.
I still hold Mckmama accountable for making the video first off.
Next I hold Mckmama accountable for putting on a site that could be found by anyone.
Lastly, I hold MWOP accountable for bringing attention and giving the location via a link to the site to this video since it could be dangerous for the children. I stand behind my opinion that they should take all links to this video down if they would like people to believe they care about the children.
I still believe Mckmama should not have been so careless as to make this type of video and leave it for all the world to see. I think this should have been a private moment between a mother and her children. I believe the children are not old enough for this information but that is my opinion.
Lauren & Anne,
Totally agree with you.
Finally, MWoP pointing it out & providing a direct link is worse, IMO.
After all, they are they ones who claim they need to hold JM accountable. In that case you'd expect them to be better than her, which clearly didn't happen here.
Also, they are JM's kids at least. MWoP is discussing somebody else's kids in great detail. Makes it worse.
Lisa,
I'm so, so sorry for the scare!
For me it's pretty much 'birthday season' between TG & Xmas, so I make extra sure everyday not to forget anybody & when I came here, I remembered you as well. As you shared here in the first place I hoped it was ok to 'follow up' here.
But I sincerely apologize if that was inappropriate for you.
The bedroom colors? Brrrh, big no.
The 3-tone one has no calming effect whatsoever & is bound to drive everybody in it insane within a few weeks. And the maroon one might be nice for a master bedroom, den, etc., but way too depressing for kids.
The most interesting part is the expired domain & JM's handle on it.
First she waits like 5 hours to acknowledge it at all. Then it's hidden in some playtime comment that not everybody's going to read.
To me THAT would have been the one time to post on Twitter & facebook asap.
If she thinks of her readers as dear friends or paying customers doesn't matter. They deserve an explanation. And a better one than what they eventually got.
Because now JM is clearly lying. There's no technical difficulty that 27 elves need to work on. Why not own up to letting the domain extension lapse?
That from the woman who is not too embarrassed to seek public assistance in finding her fricking phone every other month.
Also, she should have included an 'eta' and a reassurance that she will anounce on facebook, twitter, etc. once the blog is back up & running again.
As it is, she treated her 'followers' rudely and poorly.
It appears that JM has taken the video off her Vimeo site, amazingly enough. I don't think I've ever seen her respond that quickly to much of anything. Glad it's gone! -L
Let's hope that she took it down due to the backlash. Could be that she just didn't want to ruin her future post on it...
So glad to hear Mckmama took the video down. As hard headed as she is about listening to her readers about things like the naked pictures of the kids etc. I see her taking the video down as a sign of maybe she is listening.
I truly believe Mckmama has no filter and doesn't see things the way most mothers do. I find her mothering odd and I believe her to be socially ackward and I think her personality is such that she does get the thing about what is acceptable and what is not. I find that she doesn't appear to take what society thinks into consideration with her decisions. It's almost like she just flies by the seat of her pants and says and does as she pleases.
I've always felt her desire to homeschool is more about her not having to answer to teachers or a school district. If her 6 year old son was at school giving sex education lessons to his peers, telling them the names of the sex organs and what they do and how they do it..well let's just say Mckmama would have some explaining to do.
Lisa:
The pic of the secret underwear ::giggle::
The more I read about this stuff the stranger it becomes...there is a video about the secret hand shake with passwords and you wear the secret underwear.
Please someone tell me this is all a joke and not for real??? Now I am reading that before 1990 it was death by having your throat slit if you gave out the secret handshake or the passwords??? Now in 1990 they took out the death part???
Ann Church since you say you have family associated with this religion please tell me all this is not true?
Ugh, I can't believe I'm letting myself into this, but here goes.
1- I haven't seen the video, but from what I've read, I'm gladi didn't! I specifically remember Jennifer mentioning the video and that she would post it soon. She said it was something like a sweet intimate moment in the barn that she video taped to share. So I fully and completely blame her for her judgement error. However, I do think anyone who is repulsed by the video should not be sharing it.
2- About Mitt Romney. Well, let me back track. I am an active Mormon. (Waves!) My husband has been a Bishop. We do not have some oath to put the church first, neither does Mitt. We are taught that we each have our own free will, and before we believe what anyone teaches us, we should pray and ask if it is truth. If you are ever taught by a missionary, the first scripture he will ask you to read privately will be about just that (Moroni 10:3-5). I would never follow any church leader blindly, just because they said so. We are also taught that family comes before church duties, and more importantly, that we are to obey the laws of our own land while we are here on the earth. Specifically this impacts members of the church who live in countries that do not have such freedoms as we do in America.
In my own personal life, let me share an example. I do not agree that there should be laws against gay marriage. Yes, I agree that it is not religiously okay. However, I do not believe that American laws, according to our Declaration of Independence, should force religion on anyone. Religious freedom also means freedom from religion, should you choose. Just as I have a right to practice my religion freely and I would never allow a law to inhibit it, I would never allow a law that forced my religion (that homosexuality is wrong) on anyone else. For this reason, I am an active Mormon who will vote to allow gay marriage. It is my duty as an American to do what is right in accordance with our Declaration of Independence, which means I cannot be a hypocrite and expect my own freedom to practice religion while simultaneously denying that right to another American. Yes, I disagree with the church. However, the church respects my God given free will to choose. For this reason, I can easily see an LDS President being able to perform his duties to his country, according to what he himself believes is right, just like any other President.
When JFK was running for President, many worried that since he was Catholic, that he would be a puppet for the Vatican. His speech explaining how he would act as President regarding his religion is very similar to What Mitt Romney is saying. If you haven't read or heard it, give it a look. He himself, as well as church leaders, have promised that they will not be advisors to any President, that any American President now or in the future that is Mormon will not be expected or told what to do in his office in any way shape or form by the church. That the church will not be involved in those politics.
I hope this helps anyone questioning how a Mormon can be a free thinker or even a President.
Next, the underwear. Oh, the underwear. When I joined the church in college, I had a similar reaction. Oh. My word. They expected me to wear the same type of underwear for the rest of my life?! But yes, it is true. Dedicated members of the church wear garments. It's not to say all do. If you ever have a chance to see mainstream LDS culture, please check it out. We are totally normal people, not at all what you might think if you live somewhere that has a low LDS population. The church is most prevalent in the US in the West.
But, back to the underwear. Yep, I wear it. The top is no different than most of the other undershirts I was wearing before, from Old Navy, Victorias Secret, Target, etc. I always wore at least a white tank top under most shirts, especially lighter colored ones. I hate seeing someone's bra through their shirt, always have. It's trashy. So, the top was totally fine with me. In fact, I was glad because it was way cheaper than what I was buying and way better quality. Basically a very slim almost sleeveless undershirt.
The bottoms are also similar to what I was wearing. They come in different sizes. When I was researching this crazy underwear idea, the only image I found online had this unflattering picture of a woman in garments about 10 sizes too big and tall. They looked like pantaloons! No way was I going to wear them! However, garments come in many fabrics, cuts and sizes. Personally, my underwear is cut like boy shorts and not baggy or loose. I was wearing the same cut before I joined the church from VS and walmart. Just now, all my underwear is white. Except my special Christmas Panties. Kidding. But, I do have regular underwear that I wear whenever I want.
I was totally against the idea of garments, until my LDS friends told me they wore them. My regular, normal, friends. I asked how they could, and they explained the history of garments in the Bible. Another reason was modesty. Wearing undershirts means less flesh, but not in a nun-like way. I wore the same clothes I did before, except my booty shorts had to go. Which was fine because I'm too old for them anyways :) Finally, this may be hard to understand, but garments are an outward sign of dedication, but not to anyone else. It's private, and solely our choice. No one knows we are wearing them, you can't see them, and our wardrobes vary just like anyone else. You can't pick out a Mormon from a crowd, like the Amish. I shop at Banana Republic, The Loft, Old Navy, TJ Maxx, Maurices, anywhere I want. Garments haven't really affected me, as far as being different from who I was or how I dressed.
I did not mean to post a huge epistle about this. I just thought I would chime in as "one of you", and let you know that totally cool, totally normal folk are LDS, and we are not the minority. I'm not a minion and I'm no ones Sheeple. I've got my quirks, I totally understand if you think my underwear is weird. Just thought I'd share a real persons view of something that can easily be taken to be completely strange.
Back to lurkdom I go!
-The Mormon
(cause let's face it, thats how you'll remember me from now on anyways). :)
I'm beginning to wonder if the Mckinney children are safe being in that home. With Israel's physical abuse history and Jennifer's well documented mental instability and preoccupation with all things sexual, my prayer is that CPS has been properly notified.
None of those children started a conversation about breastfeeding or sexual intercourse, let alone in such a graphic way. Jennifer led the conversation and coached them into the graphic conversation.
She's pulled the video down for now listing it as a "private" video. The video has been saved, though, and I hope someone takes it to the authorities. With everything else those two social rejects have done -- all documented, of course -- this should spark someone with some sense to look into the sick situation they've got going on in that strange and isolated home.
Anon 11:44 Thanks for your opinion.
Since you have so much knowledge maybe you can clear something up for me?
It appears I found this info online about the Mormon religion and this was what had me concerned about Mitt Romney being President. How can he serve 2 leaders? His religion and our country?
According to Mormon secret oath taken in the Temple, which Mitt has done..it states the following:
Mitt Romney is a long standing, card carrying, temple Mormon. The Mormon temple is a place where only the most faithful followers of the Prophet and the religion are allowed to enter. In this place, Mormons participate in secret signs and rituals in which, up until the 1990’s, they were sworn by oath to secrecy that if they revealed anything about these temple rituals, this act would be punishable by death. Here is the exact oath: "I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which are associated with this token, its name, sign and penalty, and which you will be required to take upon yourselves. If I were receiving my own Endowment today, and had been given the name of "John" as my New Name, I would repeat in my mind these words, after making the sign, at the same time representing the execution of the penalty: I, John, covenant that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken." These rituals consist of secret hand shakes, tokens, oaths, secret names and many other bizarre proceedings.
Another of the secret oaths taken is to consecrate your time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Now based on the above statement the church comes first or he would have to leave the Mormon faith and no longer be a follower? Would a true Mormon leave their faith to become President? Because to be President would require you put the Country first. Since they cannot both be first it would have to be one or the other?
Also is it true about the secret handshakes and the tokens and passwords?
Just all became very interesting to me once I started to do some research and I find the secret stuff all very strange? It seems like if something is secret you are hiding something?
Mormon:
Thanks for the answer about the underwear. It was nice the way you explained it.
If you don't want to answer you don't have to but are you a member of the temple? Did you take the oath and the secret handshake and password? Are women even allowed to be a part of this?
I do respect that this is your religion and your choice..I just had never read anything deep into this religion and now that I have I find it interesting all the secret stuff surrounding this religion.
Being Catholic myself I have always respected others religion and believed that we all would end up in the same heaven one day. However, after reading about the Mormon faith it appears the Mormons believe only the Mormons who have been endowed in the Temple will end up in the highest of Heavens. Sorry but I have studied the Bible and I believe there is only one heaven. What I have taken away from reading about the Mormon faith is heaven is like earth..you have the rich, the middle class and the poor. I don't believe this to be true..heaven in my teachings is equal and once you enter the gates we are all equal.
I think that's why I love the old saying.."You can't take it with you when you die"..meaning belongings or worldly things. Once you get to heaven it doesn't matter if you are rich, middle class or poor..or if you have been endowed in the Temple. Of course my opinion..
Again thanks for explaining the underwear thing!
Mormon:
One last thing..
Can you explain this to me?
■Mormon Prophet and Apostle Orson Pratt stated “Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the Lord denounces... as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them (The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255)
■And that great pit, which hath been digged for them (Christians) by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, said the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end. (Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 14:3
How is it that Mormons call themselves Christians when their own Book of Mormon states the above about Christians? I am really confused..
Actually I am more convinced than I was before I started this research that a man who believes he will go to heaven and become a God himself and rule his own heaven and produce spirit children (all taken from the information about being Endowed in the Temple which Mitt has been) that this is not a man I trust to run my country. John F Kennedy never claimed to think he would go to heaven and become a God.
Very scary stuff and with the state our country is in we cannot afford to get 2012 wrong. I've not been active other than voting but this has just made me realize I need to get involved NOW and fast.
Maybe I am the only person that didn't know all this about this religion but it sure in the heck has opened my eyes and made me very scared of someone running my country that believes they will one day become a God. Talk about a God complex..in my religion there is only room for one God. Otherwise heaven is going to be over run with Gods up there.
I find other religions very intriguing.
So much talk :)
That video was really not something that should have been made public in my opinion and I really wish that JM would smarten up and realize that if she posts it MWOP will dig until they find something. MWOP has nothing but a bunch of psychopaths going out for the jugular anymore.
NurseMickie are you serious? I still am a firm believer in the fact that 70% of what lead up to Izzy having DV charges is because JM didnt like him voicing his opinion. Do you seriously know how easy it is to put a DV charge on a man? All you have to do is tell the cops you were afraid and/or that he was going to hit you. He could brush past you in anger heading for the door to leave because things are escalated and BAM you have his ass in jail for DB. And the video is NOT grounds to take away someone's kids. I wonder what CPS would say if they saw some of what happens in your own home as you are so quick to want someone to lose their kids. Seriously you want CPS to put time, energy, money into taking away the McKinney children? How about that little girl who lives everyday in fear that mommy is going to get angry today? Is mommy going to come home and beat her again? If she is good will she get to eat? Is mommy going to be mad that the room is bloody? She couldnt get her nose to stop bleeding last night. Her hands being tied up to the bed post makes it hard.
That wasnt necessarily a true story but not far from the truth. When I see people like you throw out there how the McKinney's deserve to lose their kids it honestly makes my stomach churn. Freaking educate yourself on what can make a parent deserving of losing their child. Educate yourself and quit being so ignorant.
Look up the story of Jeanette Maples. See what she went through and then tell me how the McKinneys even come CLOSE to deserving to lose their kids.
"If MWOP really cared so much about the kids as they PRETEND to, they would NOT have brought that video to everyone's attention!!!!!"
Anne, I've got mixed feelings on that, like Darcy. I mean, to a degree, I agree with you. At the same time, to *not bring it out is going against the entire purpose of MWOP, which, at least at the beginning, did have a very valid purpose - exposing JM's bullsh*t.
Tina, the minute you put a video on Vimeo and mark it for public viewing (assuming it's like Youtube in that you can do that), you've done just that...put it out for public viewing. Many people "follow" certain people on Vimeo or Youtube because they like (or dislike) the person's videos and want to see them as they are put out. That's one of the actual purposes for sites like these. She doesn't have to invite people to come look, since the very posting of it *is an invitation.
Trying to catch up here...Kate, no worries! It was fine and was nice that you remembered. :-)
I am also a Mormon and find this conversation delightful. Let me tell you why. If you google ANY religion, whether it be catholic, protestant, baptist, born again christian etc. You are going to find things that "ex members" didnt like or exaggerated. I totally get that some things seem weird or off to people who just skim the surface of a certain religion. But whats funny is when people google these things, or talk to people who dont really know. If you really want to know what a religion believes... go to the source. If you guys are REALLY interested in what the mormons believe, dont go looking at anti mormon literature, or at anti romney stuff. Of course the explanation is going to be skewed and biased. Go to www.lds.org or mormon.org. This is a religion based on the teachings of Christ and his prophets. Nothing more. Christ is the head of our church. To answer a few questions. There is nothing secret about our "secret underwear" :). Ask Steve Young. Or any other famous Mormon. Its just an outward symbol of our dedication to the Lord. Its our way of keeping ourselves modest and showing respect. The old testament also talks about the use of similar clothing. As far as the temple goes...its a sacred house of god. No one is going to slit your throat if you talk about it. I had never even heard that before. Thats sick. Its like any other holy place, we dont advertise for it because its sacred. Thats it. I think people are reading too much in to things and trying to make something out of nothing. As far as Mitt Romney goes, if you are really going to base your vote on religion... I would hope you would actually educate yourselves on that religion from the RIGHT sources instead of blindly following the negative. He is a man with high morals and high standards. He doesnt sleep around or drink. He believes in Christ and is a god fearing man. He has spent a large portion of his life in the service of his church and other men. So, if you dont like him because of his political standing then that is great. But dont judge him on a religion you dont understand. His religion has nothing to do with his dedication as a presidential candidate. I think people sometimes view the mormon church as a restrictive domineering church. Its not. Yes at one time Mitt did serve as a bishop. But being a bishop in the Mormon faith is different than Catholicism. Mormon Bishops still have full time jobs and work to support their families. The church does not compensate them. Its a short term service that they volunteer. Mitt is no longer a bishop which means you have nothing to worry about as far as his "Dedication" to the country goes. As far as those quotes go... I would suggest actually opening up a REAL copy of the Book of mormon and the Seer. Those were edited verses that were changed to paint Mormons in a bad light. We dont think we are any better than anyone else. We believe Christ is the Son of God and the savior of the world. How does that make us not christians? We believe that there will be MANY different religions in Heaven. Protestants, Jews, Catholics... you name it. Because its not the religion alone that saves. Its the intentions and actions of the person. YES we do believe there are certain things that have to happen. Baptism, confirmation by the correct power. These are good people. They are striving to live the way the gospel of Christ outlines. I really hope this has helped. But, more than that I hope that if you are honestly wondering what mormons believe that you will look for the CORRECT sources. Not edited, biased, or skewed sources.
Makes my stomach churn too when people say the Mckinneys should lose their kids, or call CPS. There are many, many kids out there that are being abused and need CPS, to have them waste time on JM's kids is a waste of their time and taxpayers money. I don't get why people would want that? Do you really want to see those precious kids being split up, sent to a families they don't know, who MAY actually abuse them in the system, be scared etc.......Why would anyone want to do that to the Mckinneys?
Also, as far as the DV arrest, it's true that anyone can have their spouse arrested pretty easily. There are always 2 sides to every story and with JM's impulse control and filter issues, I wouldn't be surprised if she made hasty allegations in regards to her husband and probably wishes she could go back in time. Who knows? She doesn't strike me as a victim though.
Darcy
"-The Mormon"
Lol, excellent name and thank you for the interesting comments! I just learned a lot and appreciate it when I can learn from a real source. Now, and I cannot beleive I'm asking this btu what the heck...if you wear garments, why would you also have regular underwear? And, heh, feel free to ignore that since, really, I know that's pretty darn personal. I'm nosy, though, so it can't hurt to ask. :-)
I'm at a loss about Jm's reaction to her blog, too. You'd think if it was a financial issue, in light of all her financial "honesty" lately, she'd jump all over a chance to say she just didn't have the funds to renew and is trying to get the money together. Her followers would love that, I bet, since it would make her more human.
NurseMickie, I think those kids are perfectly safe in that house. To think otherwise is downright over-reactive. As for Israel's domestic violence record, frankly, I take it with a grain of salt. She has basically admitted she falsely called the cops on him and I can see that happening. I also know there are scores and scores of women out there who will hit, shove and slap their husbands and think it's perfectly fine, but let the husband shove or slap back and she runs to call the cops. I also think this is a distinct possibility of what happened there. Not only do I not believe he'd ever harm those kids, I think they're probably far safer with him that her.
She admitted too that it wasn't physical and she gave as much in return, sadly he was the only one who got charged.
I don't think IM is innocent in everything but I think she knows full well how to piss that man off and does it on purpose at times.
"How can he serve 2 leaders? His religion and our country?"
Tina, can't this same thing be asked of any politician who professes to be religious? Don't all religions expect followers to serve God first?
"I don't think IM is innocent in everything but I think she knows full well how to piss that man off and does it on purpose at times."
Pamela you said it very well. I just see her personality as being much as she has said herself. She doesnt like to back down, she knows that her way is the best way, and I can see her especially if at the time she didnt realize it yet, be a controlling bitch who would see nothing wrong with getting up in his face and push his buttons.
Now I am not saying that DV is acceptable because it really and truly is NOT ever OK but as women how many of us can say we have pushed it knowing that the reaction could be more then we were prepared for. I know what buttons I can push with my husband. I know how far I can push him.....because I love and respect him very much I dont push it to the limit. I can see her being the type to push it past that limit and just sit there daring him to do anything back.
"Tina, can't this same thing be asked of any politician who professes to be religious? Don't all religions expect followers to serve God first?"
Lisa I was thinking the same thing.
Personally I expect that anyone elected President is going to be religious, no matter how much that bugs me LOL, but my hope is that the person elected is able to lead by what the wishes are of ALL the people. I think it would show great amounts of weakness if a person was unable to separate themselves from their religious views. Dont know if that makes sense to anyone LOL
I'm at work, so I can't post long, but I will try to answer your questions.
Lauren- the quote you gave of the "oath" we take in the Temple is wrong. I am a Temple attending member. Card carrying, as some might joke. It's not for the uber religious, there are no secret rooms or rituals that only special members can do. If you are endowed, you are the same as the highest church leaders in the Temple. In fact, I've attended the Temple with the President of the church, Gordon B. Hinckley. because of this, I know what I have done in the temple is the same as anyone else, even Mitt. And I can promise you, that "oath" is incorrect.
The temple has a few uses.. It's is a place for Baptisms, weddings, prayer and learning. You will hear it a lot, but the temple is sacred, not secret. We aren't hiding anything. Any person in the world can go. Yeah, you need to be a member of the church, but it's not some place for only the elite. I liken it to my sorority (I was in a strictly no hazing sorority btw) At the end of pledging, we had a ceremony in our room in one of the buildings at school. We all wore white, were given a rose and lit a candle. We learned the history of the sorority, and pledged to be true friends, blah blah. We had a secret handshake, and a password even. We even said an oath, that was punishable by death if we broke it. When I heard the rumors of my sorority when I was pledging, it was all hyped up, I thought we were going to drink each others blood, etc. Seriously, have you ever seen a headline about a murder because some college chick got drunk and blabbed her sororities secret at a party, only to be found dead the next day because she broke her oath? Me either. Likewise, you have never heard of a Mormon being harmed for spilling the beans about what happens in the Temple.
Every Sunday we take the sacrament and promise to remember God and obey his commandments. It's the same principle in the temple.
I said before, we are not sworn to the church. Mitt Romney would not be serving two masters, so to speak. He isn't new to politics. Check out his stance on whatever issues you are interested in. If you like them, great. If not, don't vote for him. He has held government office for a while, and has never been a puppet to the prophet. He has never been told what to do for his job. If he were sworn in as president, his role there would come first. The church will not interfere, preside over or dictate with the post of the American President. The church is bound by the commandment to obey the laws of the land, which means a separation of church and state. above all, the church is honest. They will not do anything dishonestly or in secret. There will be no hiding, the extent of contact or involvement with Mitt, should he be President, will not be hidden. If the church sends out an official message saying it will not tell him what to do, etc (which it has), you can bet your life that is Gods honest truth.
Yes, whoever is the bishop nearest the white house would be his bishop, but the only thing Bishops deal with is personal spirituality. The church does not interfere with work. For example, we are taught that we should keep the Sabbath day Holy. It's a commandment. Which means no working or shopping, etc on Sunday. But, if you have a job that requires you to work on Sunday, you are not penalized for it. Likewise, if I'm on vacation and do whatever the heck I want on Sunday, that's my own choice. I don't know if that explains what I'm trying to say, but I can't stress enough, any American President who is Mormon will not be a puppet for his religion. It is against both the laws and the religion. We would never be asked to break the law.
Cont.
About Orson Pratt- he was never a president of the church. In fact, he was excommunicated from the church. When he was alive, the church excommunicated him and made an official announcement in local papers about his teachings. This is the official announcement:
"The Seer [and other writings by Pratt] contain doctrines which we cannot sanction, and which we have felt impressed to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it. Where these objectionable works, or parts of works, are bound in volumes, or otherwise, they should be cut out and destroyed."
Regarding the quote from 1 Nephi, the official church description of that passage is that it is not speaking about one particular church, such as Catholicism, but of any church or doctrine created by people who go against the salvation of the children of God (teaching that you can pay your way into heaven, for example, instead of through Jesus). I guess where some people get miffed is that we believe Jesus set up his church when he was on the earth and told people how to do it. then all these pele came along, rebellions, apostasies, branches, etc and all of the sudden there were many different Christian religions. If we are all Christian, why is there different sects of Christianity, like Presbyterian, Methodist, baptist, etc? Somewhere down the line someone didn't like what they were being taught, so they started their own church, which led to branches of Christianity. As Mormons, we practice what the bible described. If it's in the bible, we do it. For example, garments. God gave garments to Abraham and explained them. God is the same and his gospel is the same, so if he told man that something was essential to his salvation, such as in the new testament,
I really have to go, But please let me leave you with some advice. There are millions of Mormons all over the world, and probably thousands of anti-Mormons. Each individual person has their own explanation. However, the fact is, if you want to know what our doctrine is, the only place that can be guaranteed is right is an official statement from the church. Not a news article citing a professor, not a well designed website, not a blogger, not even me. official descriptions of doctrine, official quotes, etc. Stick to LDS dot org or Mormon dot org, the churches official websites. Anything we believe, anything in our gospel, is available there. You can even live chat with a missionary there and ask your questions.
If I missed something, I will come back later and check. I don't want to get caught up spending hours on the Internet though :)
-The Mormon
(And technically, "Mormon" is a slang. We are actually called "Latter-day Saints or LDS)
So,
-That LDS chick :)
I saw must have deleted the end of a sentence up there. I meant to say
"such as in the new testament... It is the same now as it was then".
-The LDS Chick
Stephanie:
Thanks for discussing the Mormon religion but I'm still confused..
So the questions I've asked are still not being answered. I never said I didn't think Mitt Romney wasn't a nice person or a good man. My concern is someone running the country as President who believes he will go to heaven an become a God in charge of his own personal kingdom and will have spirit children while there. Also you say Mitt is no longer a bishop in the Mormon faith but my question about his endowment in the Temple and the secret oath of his church LDS before anything else and the secret handshakes and passwords???
BTW the quotes I showed are from the LDS Book of Mormon so are you saying they are wrong??
My main concern is trusting someone to run this country who believes he will one day become a God and rule his own heaven?? I wouldn't feel confident of any candidate who believed this Mormon, Pagan, Catholic or any religion.
"Seriously though if Mitt put his religion over politics he wouldn't be a politician. This is a non-issue."
Not true, perhaps he wants to bring some God back into this country?
~SSA
Go to Lds.org and open up the book of mormon. There is NOTHING in there that says those verses are about Christians. You took it out of context. It does not say (Christians) after it. Nor does it reference anything about it in any place in the Book of Mormon. It was takenn from a website. Not the actual book itself. As far as the other questions.. like I said. You are reading way to much into doctrine. I really like the LDS Chicks response. Its dead on. Listen to her. Fighting about religion is pointless since we are all fighting on the same side. I encourage you to do what LDS Chick suggests and look into it from a reliable source. Not from a website.
She puts it in to words way better than I can. I tend to get hot headed when it comes to these things. So Ill let her do all the talking :).
One only has to look at Mitt's past actions or inactions when it comes to religion to know his stance on whether he wants God back in this country. I tend to take into account the voting record of a candidate, his policies, etc. Why no one worries about a Christian candidate yet worries about a Mormon one is weird. Any Christian candidate could decide to put God first and change the country if he wanted. They aren't immune.
Pamela I think that is something that I have a hard time wrapping my head around as well. Why is it that Romney being a Mormon is such a big deal? Really where is the difference between being a Mormon and being any other branch or sect of the Christian religion....I use Christian religion because to my knowledge that is what all the Presidents we have had are.
Shannon:
I guess for me the difference is in trusting a man to be at the head of my country who believes he will be a God himself when he dies and goes to heaven is the difference for me.
Maybe to some that is not an issue and they think religion should not play a role in who we elect to run our country.
I can't seem to get beyond the idea of someone with that much power thinking they will one day be a God themselves and it scares me. Just like if someone was running for president who believed in witchcraft I know this may be their choice of religion but I wouldn't trust them to be in power and be at the head of running our country.
I still see that no one is answering the questions about secret handshakes, passwords and tokens? WHY is that? I have been to the Mormon site the official LDS site and for some reason this is all not discussed. It is only people who have now stepped away from the LDS who have come forward and shared the secrets.
Did anyone notice not one Mormon responding to all this has said "No, we don't have secret handshakes, passwords, tokens and believe that the men who have been endowed in the Temple will die and go to heaven and become Gods and rulers of their own kingdoms?? Not one has said NO these things aren't true and not one has said these things are true.
We all think Mckmama wordsmiths and beats around the bush..you know not lying just not answering the direct question. Sorry but this is what I see going on about this and makes me more and more convinced my gut is right about my concerns about this.
Of course I am in no way saying anyone who believes different or isn't bothered by all this is wrong. These are my opinions and I stand behind them.
Pamala:
I did go and read about his past record.
I am not at all impressed.
He is well known for his "Flip Flop" actions.
Not don't get me wrong I believe many others have dne the same thing..do and say what it takes to get elected. That is nothing new nor do I believe that will change.
However, there are many articles from reliable sources with the documentation to support it that concern me. I don't believe you should be able to BUY your way into The White House just like I don't believe you can BUY your way into heaven.
Again my main concern and the thing I cannot get beyond is the idea that a man who could one day run my country thinks he will one day be a GOD himself! Sorry I cannot wrap my arms and accept such a thought. Scares the hell out of me if I am being honest. Just like if someone was running and thought they would one day be able to fly on a broom. Sorry I would not be OK with that either.
sorry Pamala that is suppose to be Now and I put Not and done instead of dne. When will blogger comments get spell check?
Soo do you all get those commercials about "and I'm a Mormon"? Or I am just speshul?
Tina, why do you care if they have secret handshakes or passwords? I certainly don't, since it doesn't affect me one way or another unless I'm planning on infiltrating the LDS. That's nothing more than the culture and tradition of the faith, if they do. All faiths have certain "oddities" that set themselves apart from others, whether it's the means of baptizing, laying on of hands, saying specific things to gain forgiveness, disposing of a deceased person in a specific manner, etc. Many faiths choose to not speak openly of their own little oddities because of fear of not being accepted or looked down upon. And sometimes, it's simply something that is supposed to remain sacred to the faith. Perhaps this is true with Mormons, perhaps it isn't, but maybe they simply aren't supposed to discuss it because it's private and doesn't affect you.
I also don't know about Mitt (or any other Mormon) believing they'll be Gods themselves, but common sense tells me they probably aren't meaning as in on the same level with *God Himself. Sheer numbers alone invalidate that idea, since there would be many of them and still only one of Him. Perhaps by "Gods" them mean Heavenly beings or people specifically chosen by God. Like I said, I don't know but even assuming it's true, I'm failing to see why this is scary or why it would make someone a bad president. And for the record, I'm not voting for Romney because I don't like him, but it has zero to do with his religion, since I would consider voting for Jon Huntsman and he, too, is Mormon.
"Why no one worries about a Christian candidate yet worries about a Mormon one is weird."
Agreed, except Mormons *are Christians.
Lisa is exactly right.
Just saying, why worry about one religion and not the others? All religions have potential to be dangerous. And I say this as a Christian myself.
People fear because they don't understand. And with the power of the good old internet, so much misinformation is out there that even when people try to educate themselves they often are mislead.
I stand by what I said, if he was dedicated to his faith more than anything else he'd not be a politician.
Sorry Lauren, I HATE how Mckmama wordsmiths. I did not mean to ignore your questions, I thought I got them all. I was on my lunch break, and had to get back to work. I'm home now, so I will try to answer your questions.
Regarding the being Gods and all that jazz. That's something that a lot of anti Mormons talk a lot, a lot about. However, its not something many Mormons know about, because the full explanation has not been revealed yet.
Anyways, the actual history of it came from a discussion way back in the 1800s, in which Joseph Smith was talking to a group of men who asked him what heaven was going to be like. He quoted Phillipians 3:21 which says about Jesus- who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
People asked him what that meant, and he said that Jesus and God will make certain people, like it says in Phil, just like him. Just like him? JUST like him?
Well, the Bible doesn't really talk much about what happens in heaven, which is strange since that is usually everyone's focus.
Anyways, Joseph Smith explained a little more later by saying this:
“Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. …
“These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. … These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.”
We don't have more knowledge than that. The bible says we will be made just like Him, and we know not what wonderful things are in store for us. Like most Christians, the church stance is, unless we are told otherwise, we will find out when we get there what exactly the scriptures mean.
LDS chick
Cont
"Why no one worries about a Christian candidate yet worries about a Mormon one is weird."
Lisa while I do believe that Mormons are Christians also I have seen a lot of heated arguments saying they arent, And here I thought that being a Christian simply meant believing that Jesus was the path to salvation?
Tina I can understand the deal with him believing that in the afterlife he will become a god himself.
It was a weird oxymoron I was introduced to about 10 or so years ago. One of the managers where I worked was openly gay, he was also a Mormon. He was working hard on getting back into the good graces of his faith and church and asked me to marry him. Through a lot of discussions I learned some about the Mormon faith and upon learning that I would have to become a Mormon if we were to do any such thing there was no way. He needed a woman to marry and give him a son to make his church accept him back fully. When I asked him what my reward would be I was told that when I die and go to heaven I would be eternally pregnant giving birth to gods and goddesses.
Now can I say that is how it really is? No because I never went to investigate for myself.
But I also dont know that because of the way that he believes doesnt make him fit to be President. I say that because he is a politician he isnt fit to be President.
"People asked him what that meant, and he said that Jesus and God will make certain people, like it says in Phil, just like him. Just like him? JUST like him?"
Now, see, this adds to my confusion about Tina's fear, running off what the LDS Chick said and thinking aloud here but Tina, why is is scary about Mormons being Gods when they die but not scary that "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them." I mean, unless one believes God is a nice old man who lives in a cloud, with fingers, toes and nose hair like the rest of us, then this must mean in His spiritual image...or, in effect, as a God. No? Isn't it basically saying exactly what you're worried about, just in a different time frame?
By the way, that quote came from here: www.vatican(dot)va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p6(dot)htm
"I say that because he is a politician he isnt fit to be President."
I dunno, in fairness, I still think there are some good politicians out there who could be a honest, decent president. Not many, but some.
Next, about the Temple. Yes, we believe, like most Christians, that the gates to heaven are guarded by Peter, who holds the keys to the kingdom.
Peter is a guard we must all pass. Mormons believe he will recognize Priesthood holders by their names and those "secret handshakes, tokens, passwords" that you are worried about.. Those "signs" are simply symbolic of Gods plan, we gain a body, hopefully learn to love God, then we die and spend eternity hopefully in heaven. I repeat, simply symbolic. Those who don't know what the heck I am talking about, it's ok. It's not a pass/fail to get past the gates. Unlike most Christians, we don't think people go to he'll just cause they were born in a time or place where they didn't hear the Gospel.
I don't mean to downplay what happens in the temple. But, we don't do any secret crazy sacrifices or voodoo dances.
Hope my explanation helps. Again, let me know if you want more of an explanation.
LDS chick
P.s... Stephanie, I was going to say that YOU worded things better than me :)
LDS chick
Shannon, your gay Mormon friend sounds to me like he was trying to fake his way into heaven. Am I reading it right? Kind of like when illegal immigrants marry to gain us citizenship, he was trying to marry you to gain, um, citizenship in heaven? I don't know the whole deal, but just so you know, his entry into heaven isn't reliant upon doing certain things, especially if they are fake. You can sit in a garage every day saying "vroom! Vroom!" but that doesn't make you a car.
If he was just trying to gain favor or acceptance from his family, that is the families problem. It is not okay to disown or judge a family member for being gay. Sexual sin is sexual sin. Sex before marriage is the same in Gods eyes as homosexuality. It's not their job to judge, it is their job to forgive, and accept that we all sin. I'm sorry if he was cast out of his family. I would never do that.
As far as getting back in with his church, again, if it's fake, it doesn't count.
Same for you. You wouldn't be rewarded in heaven for marrying a gay dude and pretending to be Mormon :) glad you didn't listen to him!
Lastly, dear God. Pregnant for eternity? Babies upon babies? Oh geez. This guy has all sorts of wrong ideas. I sure hope he figured out what the real doctrine was.
^^^^^
LDS chick
Lisa:
You ask why I care about the special handshakes and the passwords? I care because it involves a man who is running for the position of running the country.
If you do the research he does in fact believe he will be SPECIAL..and unless you are endowed in the Temple you will not be his equal in heaven. He does in fact believe he will be a GOD and rule a kingdom and that ONLY the Mormans who carry the Temple card will have this status. It equals the status of folks here on earth...rich, middle class and poor.
I care because it concerns me that a man who might run this country thinks of himself as having special powers and not being an equal to you, me and anyone else who is not a card carrying member of the Temple.
How can he be a good leader if I am not his equal? How can he advocate for my rights and protect my country for you, me and all non Mormon Temple holding card people?
At least we can agree on one thing, I too will not be casting my vote for Mitt Romney for president.
LDS chick that is EXACTLY what he wanted to do....fake his way into heaven. Hell he even wanted to keep his boyfriend :) I may not be a religious person in the first place but living a lie and having another baby or 50 to help someone fake their way to heaven wasnt cool.
You should have seen my face when he told me what my reward in heaven would be. 8{ OH HELL NO!!!!!
Shannon:
Knowing you like I have come to know you on the internet, I'd say this Mormon Gay fellow didn't know you so well cause that doesn't sound like something you would be happy with! Pregnant and being submissive to a man and your only worth being to populate his kingdom. ::giggle:: I'm getting a good laugh about this one. So glad to hear you didn't take him up on his offer.
LDS Chick:
Thanks for engaging me in my questions about LDS.
Here is another question I have..can a woman have the same status as an LDS man? Does a woman of the LDS faith get to be a God also? Does she get a secret password to call her husband into her kingdom also? Are men and woman considered equal in the LDS faith? Can a woman in the LDS faith become endowed in the Temple and receive her secret handshake and passwords and tokens just like a man in the LDS faith?
Shannon:
HELL to the NO I agree!
I'll get myself to heaven THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
::giggle::
I would just like to say I am so proud that we as women can discuss all this and not argue and be hostile or rude to one another. I think it shows that women can all have different opinions and views but can still be civil to one another. I'm so proud of how this conversation has not turned to bullying and name calling and actually when Mormon girl said to just call her that I thought..here we go someone is going to take that all wrong. So happy no one did and again I'm beaming with pride at the way in which this discussion has been handled. GREAT JOB EVERYONE!!!! ::big smile::
LSD Chick:
Now that you have acknowledged that the handshakes, passwords and tokens do exist..I have one more question.
Why are they needed..I will have no secret handshake, password or token, so does that mean to a Mormon I don't get in? If I can still get in without all this, WHY is it needed? What is the purpose of it? Does the secret handshake, password and token mean those that have them get in a different heaven than I do?
I think you and I both know what I am talking about and again it goes back to my point of being equals and that some would believe they will have a higher status in heaven than us normal folks. I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe heaven will be set up with status and it will be like earth
Rich = Heaven for Mormon Temple card holders
Middleclass = Mormons who did not reach Mormon Temple card status
Poor = Us common folks who are Non Mormon
My opinion is we are all equal in the eyes of God. Black, White, American Indian, Hispanic, Asian, Rich, Middleclass, Poor, Baptist, Catholic etc. etc. Getting to heaven isn't based on status, race or religion.
Isn't heaven going to be over flowing with Gods based on the LDS beliefs? I mean I know it is a big place but isn't going to be confusing with so many Gods and which God will be in charge if I am to believe all this?
Now I gotta throw this out there. There is a lot of concern over how Mormons may or may not view the afterlife and about rituals that may or may not be real.
Dont many different faiths have these things? I mean Catholics have their little idols that they worship, rosary that has chants with it, the crossing thing, the christening at birth and last rights upon death, etc.
Different sects of Judaism do different things all in the effort to live the way that they believe.....what is eaten,how it is prepared, how it is cooked, what can go with what, the head covering, the sideburn curls, etc.
I mean every religion has its own rituals. Every religion has its own belief on what happens after death. Every religion has its own idea on what happens in their version of heaven.
And it has been my experience that MANY religious people find themselves to be better than others. They all believe that their teachings are right where others are wrong. They all believe that they are held higher in God's eyes because of their beliefs.
Lauren you make me so terribly sad for you. Not because of your opinions, but because your opinions are formed on blind intolerance and bigotry. Are you listening to any of the answers that are given? Trying to understand them? Or are you simply looking for new ways to shoot holes through them. No one here is taking shots at Catholicism. And if you notice, NONE of the members that have replied to you have said that they think they are better than anyone else. Thats whats been so funny, we have answered all of your questions. We have told you that ALL the rumors, impressions and thoughts that you have are untrue. ALL OF THEM. So my question is, why do you keep telling US what WE believe? It seems to me that you are just trying to rile up emotions and get people to rally behind you for a cause that was never yours to begin with. There is NO PLACE that you can find where Mitt Romney has said that he thinks he is going to be a God. Or that if you arent endowed that you cant be as good as him. No where. Just like you wont find anything about us being better than those of other religions. Or Mormons being the only ones in heaven. Nor will you find ANYTHING sanctioned by the church that say these things. Wanna know why? Because its not true! They are silly falsehoods that you have taken out of context from angry anti mormons. Those are not reliable sources.
It makes me so sad to see that you have asked some great questions and brought up some great points, only to shoot down every TRUTHFUL explanation that has been given to you. I had hoped for some sort of tolerance to be shown towards this issue but apparently I was wrong. What an ironic thing to have happen on a blog where it is so popular to point out the faults of others.
You may not agree with our beliefs. But as someone who ALSO believes in Christ and God, some respect to our religion and answers would have been appreciated. I, for one, apologize that you havent been satisfied with our answers. I feel like LDS Chick has explained them in a perfectly clear way. But I cant take more time to explain something as near and dear to my heart to someone who refuses to show it the same respect I would show your religion. I hope that you can take the time to get facts from reliable sources, rather than from those who are already looking for the negative. Best of luck to you.
Shannon:
Sure they have their own little things they do.
The difference is these things aren't secret, aren't done because one religion thinks they are above another and aren't about thinking one religion will gain a higher place in heaven than another.
As a Catholic I would glady show a non Catholic how to recite the rosery. As a Catholic I would glady welcome you into my church. As a Catholic you could come to a wedding in my church even if you weren't a Catholic. As a Catholic the Pope, Bishop or Priest would never run for President of the USA. Their loyalty is to the Church and could never put the country first.
I looked at the staus Mitt Romney holds in the LDS and the Temple and this is the issue for me. Will he give up his card and status if he is elected as president? Of course not and here is one of the problems I see.
Different religions are great, we are all different but when one religion begins to believe they hold a higher place in heaven because of their religion and starts talking about becoming a God...I get a weird feeling.
I believe there is only one God. Different religion but only one God.
The man who leads my country needs to see me as an equal to earn my vote.
Hey. I told you I didn't want to be here all day. :)
Ok, let's see..... First.... I get what you are saying about the three "classes" in heaven. But first, just know that we are all in the same heaven, or "house".
Our churches official stance is based on the Bible. John 14:2 says "In my Father's house are many mansions."
1 Corinthians 15:40-41 says There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So, according to Corinthians, bodies will have "degrees of glory". This is true. This is not to say you are less loved by God, or unequal in His sight. According to your heart and your actions you will be judged. Normal Christian beliefs. Your goodness in your life helps determine the glory you receive in heaven. The "least" glory, as described in Corinthians, is still heaven!
I described a bit before, but I want to stress that we truly believe God loves everyone, and he has made a way for all of us to return with him. Not a way that is contingent upon where or when you live. Not contingent upon passwords or how many goats you have. A way for ALL of us to return- meaning, anyone who lives and dies. Everyone is equal, loved and wanted by God. When you die, you will meet Jesus. He will teach you, and you will have the chance to believe or not believe him. If you believe on his name, (and, why wouldn't you?! He's right there telling you!) you receive the same forgiveness as anyone else.
Yes, there are degrees of glory. 1 Corinthians says so. But, God is just and fair, and this whole "I'm less than you, he is better than me" stuff is not what it will be like at all. But, you are correct, we do believe there are degrees of glory. But, not three separate heavens.
Cont
LDS chick
About women in the church, yes, we are equal. Yes, I do the same things in the temple as my husband. Yes, I am equal in heaven as a man. The "submissive" woman? Not my thing! God chose women to bear children, we are pretty darn important! The church takes the typical Christian stance that women and men have different, but equal roles. That is not to say that they can't be switched. Usually, the woman is the caregiver and the man is the provider. But, it doesn't have to be that way, there are no consequences if it's not.
Women do not hold the Priesthood, but not because we are less, it is because Adam was first, and God gave it to him to pass down. If God made Eve first, it would have been hers. We are equal, though. I'd never accept less.
The Temple stuff, like I said, is not pass or fail to get past the gate. The idea is that it is just a way for Peter to recognize people. Technically, it is a learning tool, to help us remember and appreciate Gods plan. It is not a magic password or handshake that gets you in. Really. It's symbolic. Jesus was all about symbolic stuff. He says we have to partake of his flesh and drink his blood- do we do that? No. There are other things people have done, even in the bible, to symbolize their faith or dedication. It's no different. God gave us all free will. Some people are stubborn and don't want to join a religion they have heard that wears magic underwear and has a secret handshake. I get it. So does God. Religion is so.... Stuffy and formal sometimes. We make it harder than it has to be. Love God. Be good. Help others.
If you are still worried, I will slip Peter a fifty when we pass, so he knows you're with me. I'll save a spot for you in my ultra exclusive table at the best upper class restaurant in heaven, and tell all my Mormon friends you are my Mormon cousin from the other planet. You will fit right in, no one will know. You can sleep on my couch in my mansion, as I'm sure that lower glory has heavens equivalent of trailers.
I jest. Heaven is heaven. I swear. Card carrying Mormons honor, I am no better than you.
Finally, seriously, the abundance of Gods thing? Speculation. I doubt it. We know very little about it. It sounded to me, from that scripture, that only a very select few will live a life so well as to deserve to be made just like God. Do we know what that entails, how it will be enacted, etc? Not yet.
How many millions or billions of people have ever lived so far? Look around- how many other Gods and worlds do you see, or have you heard about? I can promise you, the Bible commands us to worship one God. We do, and will. all I can do is trust that god has told us what to do, and how it will be, and it will all work out. He is never wrong. Except when he told the Mcks to go Rving. What was
LDS chick
Stephanie:
Sorry you feel that way and I never said anyone was attacking my religion.
The answers I asked for are simple questions and I understand you feel they are out of context..what the context of I'm only able to tell you what doesn't make the LDS faith simple like they are talking about different levels of heaven.
Why the handshakes, passwords and tokens? Why is this needed if we are all equal and all going to the same heaven. Your own answer of the handshakes, passwords and tokens was so Peter would know who was who at the gates. When I arrive and have no handshake, password or token will Peter just say "No problem you didn't need one anyway we are all equal?"
Also I feel when people become uncomfortable with the questions of their religion it is because maybe they don't feel 100% secure with the answer.
Maybe the Don't ask don't tell is easier for some.
I have not been rude and only asked questions I am curious about yet still no answer about the difference in men and women.
I really already know that answer but I was wondering how you would explain that answer. I see maybe you don't feel comfortable having to answer that, that's fine I can't say that it would be an easy thing to talk about. I feel like my questions have now hit a nerve and I'm sorry if they have offended you. That was never my intent and here I was bragging about women being able to discuss religion without hurt feelings. I should have know when you start talking about women being treated as equals would be a sore subject with some, but it is after all your religion and the choice you have made.
I have listened to your answers of some of my questions but I am not a submissive person and when some of my questions were being wordsmithed and NOT answered I wasn't just going to put my tail between my legs and say OK fine.
Got cut off. Should say- *What was he thinking?!"
But as a non-Catholic I can't take communion in the Catholic church. I can't get married in the Catholic church. I can't baptize my child in the Catholic church even though his father is Catholic.
Doesn't that then mean that Catholics have the same hierarchy you described?
LSD Chick:
Thanks for the answer and time you have spent on this. Go have a good evening with your family.
Now I still plan on getting to heaven on my own life choices and my love of God and if I get there first I will let Peter know I'm with you just in case! ::giggle::
Nite :)
Lauren, I'm not sure if my comments are updating before you post. Also, there are two Mormons here, it sounds like you are thinking my answers as LDS chick are from Stephanie.
I just wanted to clarify that it's not handshakes, passwords and tokens. Not literally. There is no special Mormon language, gang sign or money. Tokens means, those symbolic things we discuss in the temple. Token as in, symbolic gesture. Does that make sense? Just wanted to make sure you didn't think we are saying there was some special Mormon money or coin that opens up the gate like a chuck e cheese token or something. It's not literal.
LDS chick
Lauren- that is all you need :)
Good night all :)
LDS chick
anon 5:54 that is not true. Each Priest runs his own church but you can petition to the Bishop or find another Catholic church.
My daughter is Catholic, her husband is not. They have been married in the Catholic church and have baptized both children in the church. My son in law didn't HAVE to change his religion for this to happen. Some churches are more relaxed than others. Not sure what state you are in but at the time they lived in Texas in a very small town and this was less than 10 years ago.
Now the communion part is you are required to be baptized and make your First Communion to do this but you would never be turned away. No one is going to ask for your secret handshake or passwrod so techinally, you can receive communion and wine. I promise no one would know if you are Catholic or not and actually I know a few children who have gone up with their parents and the server gave them communion without the parents seeing and no one dropped dead or was excommunicated for it! You can even go to confession, receive last rites and a Priest will gladly go to a non Catholic funeral.
I am not uncomfortable. I just feel like we have answered all of your questions. And it seems like you keep trying to catch us in a "trap" or in a "lie". I love my religion. Ive lived my life with it for many years and also with out it for a few. I am confident in what I believe in. But pretty much what you are saying is "If you dont answer my questions or confirm what I am saying... then you must not believe it." I do believe what my church teaches. I just dont want to battle you on it :). It seems that you already have your opinions. And I really do applaud you on that. I think anyone who is willing to go to bat for what they believe is a wonderful person. Morals and standards in any setting now days is something to congratulate. But, I dont think this is getting us anywhere. Like LDS chick said, we are equal in the LDS faith. Just like we are ALL sons and daughters of god, and are all equal. No one can judge but God. And I guess in this case, I did feel like I was being judged or looked down on because of my beliefs. And lets face it, no one likes to feel that way. It sounds like our fight or flight instincts are veerrrry different :). I hope I havent caused any hurt feelings. Take care.
I, for one, have just loved this conversation and thoroughly enjoy hearing what Stephanie and LDS Chick have said. I've learned some things. ;-) One big thing I've learned is that I'm far more interested in Tina's fear of Mormons than I am in why JM's blog is gone. I'm not sure what that says about either of them, though. ;-D
LOL Lisa you are funny.
I really have enjoyed this as well. I may not be a religious person or believe in the things that a lot of you do but that doesnt mean that I dont find it interesting or hate learning new things about such.
I am honestly a little bit jealous of my daughter right now. This next term in school she is taking a class that I fully intend on taking when I get back in school......Middle Eastern Religion. It is all about the history and such of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. I am probably going to steal her school book for it :)
"As a Catholic I would glady show a non Catholic how to recite the rosery. As a Catholic I would glady welcome you into my church. As a Catholic you could come to a wedding in my church even if you weren't a Catholic."
So, as a non-Catholic, could I (or anyone) go to a Catholic church and receive Communion?
"I care because it concerns me that a man who might run this country thinks of himself as having special powers and not being an equal to you, me and anyone else who is not a card carrying member of the Temple."
I'm just not understanding it to be this way at all. I understand it as being more along the lines of someone who has been saved, born again, getting into heaven and being a child of God, in other words *like God, by virtue of that salvation. They just use different words, it appears.
Shannon, my favorite class in college was World Religions. You would love taking that class, I hope you can...it's amazing how similar those three religions are!
Ok ok... I have a real honest question. I honestly just stumbled across this blog because I was looking up stuff on the Nienie dialogues...what is the MWOP? I feel bad that I posted on this blog with all my opinions and I have no idea what it even is. My bad. I should have probably looked into that first haha.
Well they sure do know I am not Catholic because apparently I genuflect backwards and it gives me away right in the door.
Anon 5:54
I officially think Stephanie belongs here with a bunch of us...not that we're prone to just barge in somewhere and start talking. Noooo, not us. Well, maybe Shannon. ;-) Stephanie, it's MckMama Without Pity, an anti-MckMama blog. mwopblog(dot)com Most of us have come together from there or from an old anti blog called OHIH. And welcome!
I would be all indignant at you for that one Lisa but it is kinda true LOL
HMM now that I think about it, isn't genuflecting kind of like a secret handshake?
Anon 5:54 (since you named me that. Sorry I missed the got-to-have-a-name thing)
And hey just to set the record straight, it IS true. It was true every Catholic church I have set foot in. Which is probably four.
Anon 5:54
I am kinda giggling over here thinking of how one genuflects backwards......doesnt that hurt?
Ha. I am not a Catholic, maybe I am saying the wrong thing. But when I dip in the holy water and cross myself, someone always corrects which way I cross?
LOL well when I am picturing doing it backwards I am envisioning your knees bending the wrong way :)
Im not a Catholic either but my dad's parents are very much so. Pretty much all I know is from them. I have only been in a Catholic church twice and both times I was waiting for spontaneous combustion.
No kidding! My own SIL was about to pull me back by the hair when I went to take communion!
Anon 5:54
Anon 5:54
No guenuflecting is NOT required. Many do it out of respect but you aren't thrown out if you don't. Many of the younger generations no longer do it.
Seriously, I had a friend and her sister became a Nun and we had many conversations with her about things like communion and wouldn't the Priest just know if you took communion and were not Catholic an she actually laughed at us. Of course we were young and innocent. The sign of the cross is not required but most older Catholics still do this. Believe me you can kneel or not kneel. This is something many friends at my daughters wedding asked about. Not an issue and you can sit the entire time and you will not be struck dead. ::giggle::
Lisa:
Sorry if you think I am afraid of Mormons..not at all they are just people. My fear has to do with who will be in charge and run my country. My fear is more about the secrets and what is behind all that. That's all nothing else. Having lived in many diffirent countries in my life I have had the opportunity to experience many different religions. I've been bless my the monks in Thailand, I've had Muslims live in my home and work for me and share their faith, I've had the opportunity to visit many different houses of worship. I really have nothing personal against Mormons..I just had questions.
At the end of the day, and the end of our life we are all going to the same place to see the same God. I believe we will all become one religion and their will be no differences.
Stephanie..thanks for sharing and it is really all good. Seriously you need not feel sorry for me and I don't feel sorry for you. You have your faith and I have mine. Doesn't mean you are any different from me. It's all good!
I am totally sick here, I hate to interupt a great conversation but this is disgusting and I need to make you aware of the sick people who are posting at MWOP. This little gem was posted not only with links (that I will remove) but with the actual PICTURES of the child nudity. Yep those women care so much about those children! Notice JM took the images down from her post, but the poster here went digging for the actual pictures.
iloveyoutothestars
Okay, upon search after search I found the images from way back when of Kieran playing at the park, nude. Yes, nude. Who lets their kid play at a park with all those germs!? Or at all? Honestly, it just sickens my stomach with all of this. Her lack of patenting skills really bother me. Anyway, here are the pics and the post:
Post: http://i39.tinypic.com/t5j6zk....
Pics: XXXX
http:XXXX
Maybe it's wrong of me, knowing somewhat how CPS works, but I wouldn't find it surprising if they don't intervene or if they should.
Disgusting! I am sickened that Anja would let that stay, please go flag the comment.
EnuffzEnuff
Old, young, they all do it at the Catholic churches here. You don't go in the door without the holy water and you kneel unless you are too old or sick.
So maybe it's different at your church but that is not universal.
Anon5:54
Anon 5:54
It is a choice. They are choosing to do that. It is not required. No sign that states MUST DO THIS OR DO NOT ENTER.
Really it is a personal choice. No rule and you will not be thrown out on your bottom if you don't..I promise. :)
Wow. I guess I am just wrong wrong wrong. You are right. It is not required. There are no rules. I will just tell them you said so.
Anon 5:54
Anon 5:54
Believe me no need to tell anyone anything because they will not stop and ask you about it.
It's all good!
:)
Tina, I was teasing about you being scared of Mormons. After all, anyone who had Muslims working for them is pretty fearless!
(again, I jest, in case it's not obvious)
Enuff, no shit...they *posted the actual naked pictures on MWOP? Lovely. Just brilliant.
"Nekkid pictures of kids??? That ortta be illegal! Where are they???"
"Right'chere. See?"
/headdesk
Anja deleted the pics comment. -L
Let me say on Communion in Catholic Church, Canon Law PROHIBITS a Priest from denying ANYONE that comes forward during Communion the Body & Blood of Christ. Really.
I know. My step-father is a Catholic Priest. That's right, he married my Mom - after a very long time dating her. The Church sent him many times to our home while they were dating on Sabbatical (they paid for this travel and knew about the relationship). After years (maybe 10) he finally decided he wanted to marry my Mom, be a Dad to us kids, and grow old in our family. He is THE MOST WONDERFUL MAN I KNOW - and a fabulous Husband and Dad.
To this day, The Church has neither ex-communicated him (although they PROMPTLY ex-communicated my Mom after their marriage) and they have never officially "released him of his vows". He attends Mass faithfully, still sometimes preforms Mass when the Priest is unavailable. He recieves Communion, and his parish Priest knows his story.
Not only down South, where he lives, but here in our major metro areas - where he grew up and is VERY WELL KNOWN among the Catholic Community. I've been to Mass with him in 4 different Catholic Churches here, he has taken Communion at every one of them - personally knowing every Priest that has provided it.
I have also spent time in the Baptist faith. If you give a Catholic Mass a chance, with an open heart and ears - leave anything behind that you have been "taught" about Catholism - you will ALWAYS hear the message of Salvation (same one they give you in the Baptist churches I've been in - Southern or Missionary).
Love to see the comments here about religion being a "non issue". To me, which church you attend, or tenants you follow, is about where you and your family feel most at home. God is everywhere - all we have to do is open our ears, eyes, and hearts to Him.
A Baptholic Gal from KS
"I have also spent time in the Baptist faith. If you give a Catholic Mass a chance, with an open heart and ears - leave anything behind that you have been "taught" about Catholism - you will ALWAYS hear the message of Salvation (same one they give you in the Baptist churches I've been in - Southern or Missionary)."
Then in that sense really someone should put behind them what they have been taught to believe about the Mormon church as well and give it a chance.
I often times find it very funny how people of faith will be prejudicial and often times very judgmental of other faiths. And really is there something wrong with it? I mean isnt it the same thing? Dont some people need to have something larger to believe in? Does it matter how you do it or how you say God?
"I often times find it very funny how people of faith will be prejudicial and often times very judgmental of other faiths. [...]Dont some people need to have something larger to believe in? Does it matter how you do it or how you say God? "
That has always put me off since way back in Sunday school. That all the 'faithful' people (on say, the Easter Islands,) who never had the good fortune to come across a (Christian) missionary were automatically damned to eternal heck.
While I have nothing to add, I love the discussion on religion. I love learning about other people's beliefs and whatnot.
Kate-
That was one reason I joined the LDS church. We are taught that God loves ALL his children, and has prepared a way for all of them to come back to heaven.The people in the past, the people who live in remote areas, the people who were not taught, raised or allowed to love Jesus, etc. No way would a loving and just God make so many souls who had no way to make it to heaven. It's a wonderful, hope filled doctrine.
Thanks Anon 5:27.
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